Thanks for the question, Davy. I have mixed feelings on this subject. Paine waxed sentimental about Bordentown, New Jersey and his horse "Button," but I don't recall any deep attachment to the New Rochelle farm. He is supposed to have had the addition built on this structure only; it predates him ... and it has been moved far down the hill from its original location. The farm on which it once stood was siezed/appropraited from the Tory, Frederick DeVeaux and awarded to Paine by the State of New York. The farm itself is long gone ... one big suburb. Those are the bare facts as I understand them. On the bigger issues surrounding memorialization, I believe that Paine's works and ideas are his memorial. And he would, I am CERTAIN, prefer we memorialize him with our actions. Pres. Andrew Jackson once wrote that "Thomas Paine needs no monument made with hands; he has erected a monument in the hearts of all lovers of liberty.” That said, this location has been a locus of education on Paine's life and served to introduce many people to his life and works. There are other issues surrounding the dissolution of the late museum next door ... a smelly debacle that would, I am certain, disgust and offend Paine. I've posted on this subject in my former blog and will probably repost that information here at a later time. I recommend supporting restoration of the cottage and nothing else at this point. Thanks for your question, my friend.
I guess I was more wondering about the climate crisis debacle. . . . what Paine might think about this. His farm in New Rochelle being just a symptom in a global sickness.
Of course, we can't know what he might think, literally, and your reply will contain much that's your own subjective take. Moreover, like many of us alive 230+ years after he helped found this country have mixed feelings and aren't sure how we feel about the mess that we humans have helped make. We the Living didn't "create" this mess out of whole cloth, but inherited a massive trainwreck in the making. Yes, 7.5 billion of us 'sapiens' have also added to the momentum in a trillion ways.
Yet at the end of the day, Paine's common sense and warm heart would likely have much to say. For example, in defense of those most vulnerable to the series of catastrophes the Earth and it's creatures now endure: the Buttons of the world are being flooded, burned, bulldozed, paved, hunted, ad nauseum. The little humans of today and those who'll inherit this mess tomoro. The list goes on and on.
You've already answered plenty, Ken, and no need to reply here if you've said your peace. But if you feel like ventriloquizing Tom's voice, perhaps the small group of people following this blog might appreciate your take.
I would close with "Warm regards," but these hot days we need an update . . .
Davy, thanks again for another thoughtful reply. We must always guard against anachronism and presentism when discussing any figure from the past; much more so Thomas Paine. Everyone wants Paine to fit their agenda or the topics de jour. With that in mind, it's obvious that environmentalism and overarching climate issues didn't play any part of Paine's discussions, so anything we say is by way of extrapolation from his stated principles and actions.
All of that said, I have no doubt that Paine would have come down strongly on the side of the common man and woman (he always did) and on the side of Nature.
Probably AGRARIAN JUSTICE would be our best source for ascertaining Paine's probably opinion in these matters (though there are others). With that in mind, here's one that gives, I believe, a pretty good indication:
"No person ought to be in a worse condition when born under what is called a state of civilization, then he would have been had he been born in a state of nature, ... "
Thomas Paine
Agrarian Justice
Really appreciate your comments and questions, my friend.
Thanks for posting this, Ken. Amazing and sad.
What do you think Paine would say about this debacle?
Thanks for the question, Davy. I have mixed feelings on this subject. Paine waxed sentimental about Bordentown, New Jersey and his horse "Button," but I don't recall any deep attachment to the New Rochelle farm. He is supposed to have had the addition built on this structure only; it predates him ... and it has been moved far down the hill from its original location. The farm on which it once stood was siezed/appropraited from the Tory, Frederick DeVeaux and awarded to Paine by the State of New York. The farm itself is long gone ... one big suburb. Those are the bare facts as I understand them. On the bigger issues surrounding memorialization, I believe that Paine's works and ideas are his memorial. And he would, I am CERTAIN, prefer we memorialize him with our actions. Pres. Andrew Jackson once wrote that "Thomas Paine needs no monument made with hands; he has erected a monument in the hearts of all lovers of liberty.” That said, this location has been a locus of education on Paine's life and served to introduce many people to his life and works. There are other issues surrounding the dissolution of the late museum next door ... a smelly debacle that would, I am certain, disgust and offend Paine. I've posted on this subject in my former blog and will probably repost that information here at a later time. I recommend supporting restoration of the cottage and nothing else at this point. Thanks for your question, my friend.
Heartfelt reflections, Ken, much appreciated.
I guess I was more wondering about the climate crisis debacle. . . . what Paine might think about this. His farm in New Rochelle being just a symptom in a global sickness.
Of course, we can't know what he might think, literally, and your reply will contain much that's your own subjective take. Moreover, like many of us alive 230+ years after he helped found this country have mixed feelings and aren't sure how we feel about the mess that we humans have helped make. We the Living didn't "create" this mess out of whole cloth, but inherited a massive trainwreck in the making. Yes, 7.5 billion of us 'sapiens' have also added to the momentum in a trillion ways.
Yet at the end of the day, Paine's common sense and warm heart would likely have much to say. For example, in defense of those most vulnerable to the series of catastrophes the Earth and it's creatures now endure: the Buttons of the world are being flooded, burned, bulldozed, paved, hunted, ad nauseum. The little humans of today and those who'll inherit this mess tomoro. The list goes on and on.
You've already answered plenty, Ken, and no need to reply here if you've said your peace. But if you feel like ventriloquizing Tom's voice, perhaps the small group of people following this blog might appreciate your take.
I would close with "Warm regards," but these hot days we need an update . . .
Symbio regards,
Davy
Davy, thanks again for another thoughtful reply. We must always guard against anachronism and presentism when discussing any figure from the past; much more so Thomas Paine. Everyone wants Paine to fit their agenda or the topics de jour. With that in mind, it's obvious that environmentalism and overarching climate issues didn't play any part of Paine's discussions, so anything we say is by way of extrapolation from his stated principles and actions.
All of that said, I have no doubt that Paine would have come down strongly on the side of the common man and woman (he always did) and on the side of Nature.
Probably AGRARIAN JUSTICE would be our best source for ascertaining Paine's probably opinion in these matters (though there are others). With that in mind, here's one that gives, I believe, a pretty good indication:
"No person ought to be in a worse condition when born under what is called a state of civilization, then he would have been had he been born in a state of nature, ... "
Thomas Paine
Agrarian Justice
Really appreciate your comments and questions, my friend.
Perfect quote! And that's from page #? If handy ... if not, don't bother.
Well that settles that, he'd be pissed. Button would be pissed.
And tomoro's people will surely be pissed. Especially at us.
Many thanks for that, Ken. I look forward to shaking your hand in person one of these days. : )
LOL !! I know I'm pissed !!